The Ship Be Sinking

Mouth Almighty

Boxing Thoughts

1. That was never a draw in the opener.

2. Anyone who instigates, approves, promotes, endorses, or accepts Marquez vs. Vasquez 5 is a disgrace to the sport.

3. This is, unsurprisingly, the end for Izzy I think; you couldn’t call it unexpected given how bad he looked before the fight and how many people predicted exactly what we ended up seeing, but it’s still sad. Vasquez doesn’t get anywhere near the respect he deserves for it, but he’s been one of the most consistently entertaining fighters of this generation and has nothing at all to be ashamed of when it comes to success either. From the trilogy early with Oscar Larios to his awesome comeback win against Jhonny Gonzalez to the great trilogy with Marquez to even lesser fights which he made wars of- not always to his own benefit- you always knew you’d get your money and time’s worth when he stepped into the ring, knew you’d see a world class fighter giving it his all. Probably the most depressing thing about tonight’s fight wasn’t the way Vasquez went out, but how happy and disrespectful people have been about it; Dan Rafael’s late-night chat is full of people making ghoulish jokes about his cuts, including Rafael himself. I think people have been a bit angry with Vasquez in recent years, viewing him as an unwanted interloper of no real skill who unjustly beat Rafael Marquez twice when he wasn’t supposed to, and it’s going to take a long time before people get over that and begin to respect Vasquez for the great competitor he was and not the glorified club fighter too many people wanted and expected him to be. In 10 years he’ll get his due.

Overall a fine if sad night of fights. More on this when I’m not too sick to do anything more complex than cook soup.


May 23, 2010 - Posted by | Boxing


  1. C’mon man, while I had Mares 115-113, 114-114 was not a bad card at all. Mares laid off the gas in the middle rounds before coming out of nowhere in the ninth with a second wind. A draw is fine, even if it seemed at the end that Mares was clearly the winner because he came on so strong in the 9-12 rounds.

    Comment by Tony M. | May 23, 2010 | Reply

  2. Were you scoring the basketball by accident, maybe?

    Comment by theshipbesinking | May 23, 2010 | Reply

  3. Dude, most every article that I’ve read on the fight had the score 115-113 or 114-114. The guys on the Showtime telecast, Dan Rafael (draw), and from five outlets I haven’t read 116-112. Only Steve Springer did I see 8-4. So 115-113 is the good, correct scorecard. I’m not arguing that that is what the fight was. That’s what I had it. But are really going to call it a bad decision because of a one-round difference in a toe-to-toe battle? That’s kinda silly. I’m OK with a judge saying it’s 6-6 instead of 7-5. That’s one round in a war. Mares shouldn’t have gotten on his bike in the middle rounds. That’s where he lost the victory.

    Comment by Tony M. | May 23, 2010 | Reply

  4. Then there’s a lot of incompetent scoring going around, isn’t there? And that’s part of the issue: the average level of judging has gotten so low that fuck ups on this level aren’t considered an issue, not even a minor one; they’re considered praiseworthy because it’s better than the average. As a fan, I’m sick of making excuses for shitty judging just because it’s less shitty than the average. It still sucks. And a lot of people have been making so many excuses for so long that they’re forgetting how to judge a fight.

    Moreover, in boxing at this point in time you get the judging you pay for. Fuck ups like this don’t happen nearly as often in major fights or fights involving serious prospects because you get better judges, and because crap judges up their games when they know there’s a big audience. The fact that this fight was made, and then had crap judging, tells me a lot of things. It tells me no one who holds power respects Perez or expects to use him again since he was being fed to Mares here, and it also tells me that no one in the Golden Boy or Showtime hierarchy cares enough about Mares at this point to make sure he gets decent judging. So I walk away from this fight, with this result, knowing that two fighters who looked really good are probably not going anywhere anytime soon in their careers. That’s depressing, and it’s part of why this bugs me so much.

    Also, you want to know part of why Mares didn’t get the call? He used body punching. Body punches get less and less respect from judges as the years pass, and we’re about 10-15 years away from this being like the fucking Olympics if the trend continues. I don’t endorse that shit.

    Mares won the majority of rounds. He controlled the action. He did more damage. He hurt Perez. And he got fucked on the cards. It wasn’t the worst call of all time, but it was wrong and it’s going to do a ton of damage to Mares’s career, maybe enough to end it before it begins. That deserves to be called out, especially with the way boxing is becoming where a guy’s career often boils down to a handful of real fights.

    Telling fact: no one who had the 114-114 card who I’ve read, anywhere, has been willing to explain or defend their card- the judges least of all. I would be a lot more forgiving of this if the people making these calls A) faced any kind of a performance review process and/or B) were willing to explain their work in detail. But they don’t and they’re not, which is part of what sustains the culture of corruption and stupidity in the sport.

    Comment by theshipbesinking | May 23, 2010 | Reply

  5. Brendan, all I will say is this: Mares wasn’t robbed. I haven’t seen one reputable boxing writer call it a robbery. 114-114, while not as good a scorecard as 115-113, is not a bad scorecard. Mares didn’t get the decision because he gave away some rounds in the middle. I agree that there is atrocious decisions out there, but to call this a bad decision, and to say that there’s no way that it could be a draw (even when many of the writers and commentators that we both respect aren’t calling it a bad decision–Al Bernstein, Dan Rafael) then all that does is take attention away from truly bad decisions. But we can discuss this more during the UFC card!

    Comment by Tony M. | May 23, 2010 | Reply

  6. We can. My final word is this: any dickweed can tell you who won a 119-109 fight. In theory, you need professional judges to get the 115/113 vs. 114-114 cards right, because everything rides on that fine distinction.

    Comment by theshipbesinking | May 23, 2010 | Reply

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